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Torps (and missiles in general)

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Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.08 01:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Gypsio III on 08/05/2009 01:23:41 Nobody fits an AB on a BS. Don't use Rage if you don't know why you're using Rage. There is no problem with torps. Torp damage is unchanged in practice since QR against BS, BCs and most cruisers - because solo Raven is silly, the gangs that Raven flies in have web support and torps need painter support as much as they did pre-QR. Rockets, however, are rubbish.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.13 09:03:00 - [2] Edited by: Gypsio III on 13/05/2009 09:05:04 Nobody fits on ABs on battleships. They fit MWD or nothing. Please try to understand how meaningless a comparison involving an ABing BS is, and how rare a 1v1 BS fight is.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.13 09:41:00 - [3] Yeah, I had the Marauder bonus active on my spreadsheet. The figure looked wrong so I checked it then edited. Quote: 1v1 comparison has value. If 1 Mega is better than 1 Raven, so will 10 of each. Dear God no. That's a ridiculous statement to make. Have you no understanding of the importance of range and force projection? 1v1 BS comparisons are moderately meaningless; extending conclusions drawn from them to gang fights is just... stupid. Quote: Or more importantly, if MY Mega will consistently be more useful for my planned fight than MY Raven, then it will get to undock. You're getting closer to the true problem, which is shield transporter CPU use and the paucity of shield-tanking BS. The problem is RR, not torps. And, please, stop these fantasy fits and fantasy 1v1 comparisons. No lolABs, no magical unwebbed Megas and no Void or Rage unless you know why you're using it. Hint: simply to get a bigger EFT number is not an acceptable reason.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.13 10:40:00 - [4] Aldarrin. I fear that this will fall on blind eyes because you seem convinced already and no amount of sensible analysis will help you. However, some points for you to consider: 1. Nobody fits ABs on BS. BS 1v1s are very rare - BS are gang/fleet ships. In a BS close-range fight, the primary is webbed. No webbed BS takes any damage mitigation from speed vs torps. No webbed BC takes any damage mitigation from speed from torps. Hell, even a 1600-plated unrigged Rupture receives no damage mitigation from speed from torps when webbed. This means that speed issues exist only in your imagination. 2. The following T1 BS receive no damage mitigation because of sig issues: Raven, Rokh, Scorpion, Abaddon, Hyperion, Maelstrom. You need a painter no more than you did pre-QR, when plenty of people were saying that torps were overpowered. 3. Torps do more raw DPS to much greater range than neutron blasters, with full selectability of damage type (although in practice this means loading CN Bane as default). In a gang fight, this means the poor Mega or Tempest has to MWD from primary to primary, while the torp user just sits there and presses butan. 4. og god i can't be bothered to write any more. just carry on failing.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.13 12:12:00 - [5] Originally by: Vigaz If Torps are balanced, why SB has 100% explosion velocity bonus? They don't, they have a 50% bonus to explosion velocity. But they don't actually need it really. SBs are best employed as covops-gang DPS-support ships, where the primary will be Rapier-webbed so, as shown above, Rupture or larger will receive no damage mitigation from speed. It's an impressive-looking bonus, but when SBs are being used correctly it actually does surprisingly little.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.13 12:52:00 - [6] When not even a webbed Rupture is receiving any damage mitigation from speed, how can you believe that that the explosion velocity on torps is too low?
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:12:00 - [7] Edited by: Gypsio III on 13/05/2009 14:15:05 Stop. You have a lolafterburner on your Rupture. Even more stupidly, you have a tracking computer on it. This is hopeless. You have no idea how to interpret the numbers that you're looking at.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:59:00 - [8] Maths is easy. Interpreting the results of maths in terms of realistic in-game situations? Now, that's the tricky bit. I mean, ABing Ruptures with tracking computers? Come on. I killed a lolafterburning Rupture - and his lolAB frigate mate - last night in an barely-tanked Caracal because it had no hope of getting into range. A neutron Mega will not track a webbed Rupture that's orbiting below at 96 m/s at 1.5 km. That's 0% damage even with a web. Torps deal 29% damage in that case. At longer ranges or with lower transversals, then the blaster has the advantage. Seems reasonable enough. Torps suffer no loss of damage due to speed against BS, BCs and most cruisers when the target is webbed. Gangs that use torps have webs. There is no issue with speed here - the problem exists only in your head. Saying that torps require an extra tackle mod to deal full damage is all very interesting - although I note that you don't examine whether that is justified, given the superior range and damage - but it's an EFT exercise, it tells us nothing about how the weapons work in practice.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.13 19:28:00 - [9] Originally by: aldarrin Originally by: Bronson Hughes Blah...blah...You like the new stealth bombers...no numbers... 1. They can't reliably hit the class of ship they are designed to hit (full damage). 2. 30 second recloak timer + low EHP = boom. That's without a significant amount of support. But the kind of support necessary to make the ship worth while would be better spent on, oh let's just say an actual BS. More gank, volley, and with EHP. 3. Yes, as I've stated (read the thread pls) I do fly the ships mentioned. Minus the Rupture. No. Nonsense. Originally by: aldarrin Originally by: Gypsio III Maths is easy. Interpreting the results of maths in terms of realistic in-game situations? Now, that's the tricky bit. I mean, ABing Ruptures with tracking computers? Come on. I killed a lolafterburning Rupture - and his lolAB frigate mate - last night in an barely-tanked Caracal because it had no hope of getting into range. Where's your fit? Where's your math? It's so easy, but you can't deliver. Fail. What? What are you talking about? What ship, what fit? Stop blathering. Originally by: aldarrin Originally by: Gypsio III A neutron Mega will not track a webbed Rupture that's orbiting below at 96 m/s at 1.5 km. That's 0% damage even with a web. Torps deal 29% damage in that case. At longer ranges or with lower transversals, then the blaster has the advantage. Seems reasonable enough. Except that it will. Max transversal at 1500m w/ CNA, and skils: 111.63 m/s. 93 < 111. Wat. Originally by: aldarrin Originally by: Gypsio III Torps suffer no loss of damage due to speed against BS, BCs and most cruisers when the target is webbed. Gangs that use torps have webs. There is no issue with speed here - the problem exists only in your head. Right. If you just web it enough, EVERYTHING will hit. That's not an argument, it's a statement of fact. Dread SIEGE fire will hit things occasionally if webbed enough. That doesn't negate their low tracking speed. It certainly doesn't negate torps low explosion velocity. You have a point here? Originally by: aldarrin Originally by: Gypsio III Saying that torps require an extra tackle mod to deal full damage is all very interesting - although I note that you don't examine whether that is justified, given the superior range and damage - but it's an EFT exercise, it tells us nothing about how the weapons work in practice. It's easy, it's in the numbers. I stepped you through them with you. Remember that post with all of the numbers in it? Showing the amount of webs that are necessary to reduce the target ship's velocity? Did you read it? I promise you, it's there. Your numbers were meaningless because your assumptions were invalid and your fits were stupid. Originally by: aldarrin Originally by: Theron Gyrow This. It would also be worth your time to study the effect of turret's signature resolution stat and the real expected damage at <100% to-hit chance before commenting on the issue. Here's a return of the favor, complete with Charts and graphs. Take another look at the Rupture orbiting the Mega case.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.13 20:18:00 - [10] You speak to me about being taken seriously with your incoherent ramblings, your ABing lolfits and your lack of understanding of turret tracking?

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